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Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Eebit, Nov 9, 2012.
Does this mean I can make a sexy RP and you guys would be cool with it being public
Also, just to note,
As was just briefly discussed on IRC, most of us are comfortably past the "PG16 barrier" on violence. At that point it's not so much if we're interested in it as it is whether we want it out of view of the 13/14 year olds.
The same is true for me. A mature section definitely does not exclusively equal erotic contexts-- to me the mature section ideally would be for roleplays containing intensive violence, ideologically sensitive material, or sexual content which is conducive to a story. Some plots can be driven by these elements not for the sake or novelty of including them, but because they do contribute to the story's themes and make it more cohesive (or make the characters therein more realistic).
That being said, however, I can't assume how often an actual mature section on ZEJ would be used for these purposes as opposed to erotic roleplaying. I don't think our community is too interested in erotic RPing for the sake of erotic RPing, but I'm also not sure if most of us are too interested in the approach to stories described above. More often than not instances with 'mature' content of that kind would be contained to specific parts of an otherwise 'normal' roleplay, I think. At such point is when we determine whether or not the roleplay goes into a 'mature' section, if in the end we really need one.
All in all, I'd be fine if a mature section on ZEJ was made, although speaking practically I think it's better left as something to be made when there's necessity for it (which I don't believe there presently is).
Not this shit again.
Alright. Here's my evolved, 18 year old self talking who can now play with the cool kids in the 18+ sextion. Ha.
There is what, 2 13/14 year olds running around? I can only think of one, to be honest. I don't think it's practical to do all the coding and password protecting involved to keep two, maybe three people out. I'd be more okay with it if there were more of them here, or if we were getting a steady stream of them, or if it actively came up in roleplays enough to make this a problem. Besides, it's not like they can't go fucking Google it and find worse stuff than we write here.
I can't think of anyone here who is opposed/triggered by excessive violence. That pops up more in roleplays here more often than smut or ideologically sensitive material. I feel like by now we're all pretty good friends here, and we all know what we're cool with/not cool with. I'm pretty cool with letting that run around on the forums.
Does anyone here actively roleplay smut? I never see it. Maybe it's because there's no section for it, but I don't see a need for it at the present, because we're not an active enough community for it. We don't have an active enough stream of members to make this a thing, and I worry that filter we put on it would be based on too much of an honor code, because what's stopping the very people we want to shield it from from trying to hide their age to get in? It's happened.
Tl;dr: There's too much shit that isn't practical about this. If you want to go put dicks on ZEJ, put it in private messages for now. Maybe we can revisit this when we're a bigger community.
Although my idea has a way around it, a password protected area could be done. However, at the same time, I'm opposed to a cybering area only if this forum has partial funding through advertisements.
@Sole We are in no way funded by ads.
Thanks for the clarification.
Most ad services serve up unrelated and flat awful junk at the cost of user tracking, so I'm against ads.
Alright, after a long time, I'm re-entering this fray, too. I can't seem to decide whether or not this verges more on appreciating a liberation of artistic boundaries or just plain wanting to simulate sex between members. If it's the latter, I say do it on your own time in your own space. I'd honestly postulate that such a display of public-bound sluttiness would portray us in the wrong light. If we were to have these types of RP amidst the lot of us, the sex shouldn't be gratuitous nor should the RPs use it as much as a focal point as it should be something that is allowed to happen by story-driven circumstance. I have the same views on excessive violence: use it where it makes sense. A little gratuity is fine (think Bayonetta), but once it gets to be too much it's just plain fucking sex (no pun intended, until it was). Also, make it better than Fifty Shades of Grey because that book did nothing for my penis we would still need to embrace the same distinguished values of strong writing to give ourselves a strong name.
I also question the effect of censoring at this point, but before that, what it really comes down to is, Is there even a real demand for this? There only ever seems to be one or two people at a time who actually bring this topic up as something they're genuinely interested in, and it happens in spurts dabbed across excessively long periods of time. Until there's a greater demand, I don't actually see the point of putting something up. It'd just stagnate within the stench of those peoples' she-boppin'.
I'll just reply to this as best I can with insomnia and the fact that I've got the flu, but maybe my disease ridden brain has got something going for it. Erotic roleplay as most people think of this thread (and as I did when this was initially discussed) does fall into this category, however more interestingly and possibly more entertaining for me as it stands is the possibility for the freedom to write freely in its entirety with description whilst being in the environment of a roleplay with others - this includes all the profanity, descriptors and such needed to create an effective mood for the roleplay at hand. ie: a zombie roleplay where gratuitous violence is needed to set the feel, or perhaps a scene in which two character has fallen for each other and the consenting members agree that intimate posts can begin between the two. Perhaps also we may want to introduce a character with a very lewd personality in which certain body parts are mention in detail and dialogue exceeds that of the approprateness for the average teenager -- that, is what this section should provide - not a massive cesspool of 14 years olds ERPing.
However I will make another point, as some other people have made is: 'is there even a demand for it' the answer is... well, there isn't really a demand for any roleplays except for in tight circles on ZEJ anymore, so the answer would be no by default. The better question is: 'Would it be more productive to allow the group involved in the individual roleplays at hand to decide for themselves if they would be confortable with adding such material, and if so, then we wouldn't need this section, rather the members themselves would mutually agree to the terms, and if needed (or requested by other users) the thread could be password protected and those involved could be given the passcode by a trusted admin.
Goodnight, I'm off to IRC or to vomit profusely.
I don't think there's currently a problem with limitation as things are. From my perception, we're completely free to swear, describe gratuitous violence, or even mention our characters genitals or other sexual features. The only limiting factor is that such things need to be sensible things to describe in context. We've been on the edge of these before, but only for choice moments. That's completely social contract stuff that is either set up in the introduction to a roleplay or is the natural result of the scene. We don't need a locked out section for it unless we're going fully graphic.
Were this place busting with a community begging to go lewd that might be an interesting discussion but it's not. I can't even fathom the majority of this community agreeing to an ERP. Even if the stars aligned and we did, it would not be unreasonable to have them go elsewhere to a community dedicated to such practices.
There might still be use for the idea of a password lockout feature for who may view/post in an RP, but it's something best applied under generic terms, rather than making a full "Mature RP" section.
There seems to be a prevailing trend of people discussing the usage of a potential “mature” roleplaying section as though we're going to be "expressing ourselves to the fullest extent, free of any potential inhibition or fear of the peeping eyes of wee children."
I don't get this argument at all. Nobody on ZEJ thus far has had an issue with describing blood and guts and gore. David (Copper) mentioned that PG16 fantasy fare is well within our ‘wheelhouse,’ so to speak. That has been a non-issue with those who come to join us, and in response to Kuda’s previously-posed musing of “whether we want it out of view of the 13/14 year olds,” I would think the answer is quite apparently a no. There isn't any “ideologically sensitive” material that I can say I shy away from posting, and I'm not afraid to write that my characters cuss in scenes that call for it. Nobody else really seems to be, either. Otherwise, just about everything we roleplay would arguably be tucked away behind the sealed doors of a hypothetical “mature roleplaying” section.
Which brings me right to the next point. The discussion of the semantics of the term “mature roleplaying” can (and probably should) come to a close here, else we’re going to be continuing on forever in debate. Justifying the alternative uses of this potential forum -- call it “mature” or erotic-based or whatever you want -- is just clogging up the conversation, and ultimately is not the point of this thread. Overcomplicating the issue with miscellaneous interpretations about what might or might not be one man's "mature" to another man's run-of-the-mill is not getting us any closer to reaching a verdict on whether or not it has a place on ZEJ.
The pageantry of the issue (is ZEJ mature enough? Are we all eight year olds?) and whether or not people will use it for x thing or y thing is irrelevant; let’s start talking about whether or not there is enough interest for this to even exist. Particularly, I want to figure out who would be in support of using it, as in who would want to post in this mature forum? Not viewing it, etc. I want to know who among us can really see themselves making use of the section, and I will set up a poll as such.
Now, it’s probably worth noting that I took down the original poll. I figured that since it has been up for a solid two years (and the better part of a third), the data portrayed is pretty irrelevant. We have had people come and go (and leave, too), and people who have changed their votes/stance at least once on the matter. Pointing at that data was not getting us anywhere useful. ((EDIT: For posterity's sake, a screenshot of the final vote spread can be found HERE.))
I am okay with inciting more discussion. But I am ready to start putting the issue to rest, since we are never going to reach a complete consensus one way or the other. Are we alright with ZEJ hosting roleplays with potentially more violent or sexually explicit material? And if so, do we just give those roleplays a dedicated tag to denote them as such, i.e. marking them as NSFW (as was halfway-suggested by Spaught)? Or should we sequester roleplays of such nature into a designated section, where only certain users are allowed to see them?
I just want to point out that the data in the previous poll isn't quite irrelevant, as if you look at the names, half of the "no"s are gone or don't frequent the forum, while 6-7 of the "yes"es are gone, leaving the poll at 14 people who said some variant of yes, 3 people who said no, and 2 people who picked "Other".
Though this doesn't account for people changing their minds, that's kind of a hefty favor on the "yes" side.
I think a NSFW tag is a good solution to this problem. Mainly because I think such a tag has use forum-wide. I don't see a "mature" roleplay popping up anytime soon but I could totally see use wanting to have some NSFW posts in the "real talk" section. It also prevents clutter and us having an entire section on the page taking up space and falsely advertising "hey newcomers we ERP here."
Having an entire sub-forum will just be adding an empty subforum, but ignoring the issue will allow this conversation to keep coming up. NSFW tags are by far the most elegant solution.
Why not just give it a trial run?
Gigure out permissions, make the subforum, and just let it play out who posts and whatnot. Theorizing and arguing won't get us any farther, and the large support for the subforum is some incentive, anyway.
Of course, I don't really have any interest in it, but, you know, if it doesn't go well, we could make it so it only lives on in our memories.
Okay, this is just retarded now. Why is this discussion still alive?
There is absolutely no point in introducing a "mature roleplaying" section. Period. The argument of "gore" is transparent and shallow; we certainly don't censor violence nor death, why would excessive violence be any different? The community is and has always been quite comfortable with playing with such themes, so "censoring" it would essentially lock away most RPs into the oh-so-called "mature" section. Good job.
Now, the fact we normally do not see this "excessive violence" being played is because this group has historically found very little use for it--it's definitely not because we are afraid of stepping over an implicit line or breaking a golden rule. So, essentially, this is a nonissue as far as violent content is concerned.
Which leaves us with erotic content. Incidentally, literally nobody is interested in erotic roleplaying for the matter. So, as far as I'm concerned, this issue has already been resolved. No, we don't need a mature roleplaying section.
But are we allowed to be violent or erotic if we so choose? That is the main concern here, I think. People have had trepidation with moving into more sensitive matters because of a lack of permission, but if we could have some sort of affirmation that this is okay, then those doubts would be gone, and people would go about their business.
Yes to violence. Literally never have a heard an argument that that was limited sans Shadow understandably telling me I wasn't allowed to rip someone's heart out in a Pokemon RP after I joked I could do so.
I think the line to what is unacceptably lewd is very clearly defined and not a point of ambiguity or worthy argument. No, no one is going to get mad that you mentioned your character happens to have a penis. Yes everyone is going to get mad that you mentioned you've started fellating a penis.
I think it's clear that the only reason this is an active discussion is it's novelty. Any claims that this community lacks creatives freedoms is unreasonable.
I just said that nobody would care if you were to throw an edgeparty in your roleplays and begin describing systematic disembowelment in great detail. Once again, the reason why we don't see this isn't because of "trepidation" or fear of stepping into "sensitive matters", it's because the majority of our members find or have found very little use of gore for the sake of gore.
Delving into erotic roleplaying without any prior warning, however, is a breach of roleplaying "conduct" and is severely frowned upon. I would make use of tags or something else explicitly stating the nature of the roleplay so the players know what they are delving into. However, this is also a nonissue as simply nobody is interested in ERPing for it to matter at all.
I like his line of thinking. I'd be cool with the tag. If a 13/14 year old goes in there, a 13/14 year old goes in there. I'm certain that even if we don't let them in here, they can find worse things on fanfiction or AO3 or just general surfing. As long as we tag it and maybe put a "Viewer Discretion Advised" warning on it that comes with the tag (can we do that @Nebulon Ranger ?) I'd be down for that.