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Regarding Subforums

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Eebit, Dec 1, 2011.

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  1. Alright, so it has become apparent that there are a growing number of subforums for Roleplays.

    Honestly, from the time we implemented the subforums into 'Active Roleplays' near the beginning of ZEJ, I'd wondered what exactly warrants a subforum. For the most part, users have simply come to us (the administration, aka mainly me) and asked about adding their RP to Active Roleplays, but lately, we have started to become overcrowded with Roleplays that either don't get off the ground, or could just as easily be handled in a single thread.

    Now, I'm completely fine with dealing with these requests because it takes me under five minutes to add someone as a moderator to that section specifically, etc etc... But the subforum side of things is starting to get cluttered again. We're at a total of 8-9 subforums at a time, and very few of these actually end up being used for that long.

    I'm going to start imposing some strict regulations starting now on what gets a subforum, based on general user activity, and how many threads the roleplay is honestly going to need.

    Looking at something like Streets of Melsborough, for instance, the thing could honestly have been handled in a single thread based on what we've seen on Old ZEJ and now again here. There is little activity going on, which makes me wonder whether or not I should have given it a subforum. The setting changes can be handled in-topic, as opposed to jumping between multiple threads to get a gist of the plot (it's also inconvenient for those who are browsing via mobile).

    tl;dr? The time of free subforums has now passed. There are going to be restrictions starting now, and I will use my better judgment in the future when approving/denying subforum requests.
     
  2. Also, I think that the way the subforum RPs are handled could be better. Personally, I think that there should be a subforum to contain the subforum RPs. So it'd look like this

    Active Roleplays
    -Subforum Roleplays
    --(list of subforum roleplays)


    This would make it so much easier for me and anyone else who frequents the forum on mobile.
     
  3. To be fair, most of the time, sign ups that don't get replies get pushed down the forum pages until they disappear from page 1, at which point they'll never get any replies because people are too lazy to click the button labeled '2'.
     
  4. This is why a thing called "bumping" exists.
     
  5. Differentiating between bumping and necroposting isn't always easy.
     
  6. (Does he realize "Bumping" falls into "Necroposting"...?)

    Well, missing the point as always, bumping your SU thread is a viable option when it gets pushed down. It isn't hard. You just need to scroll down, type, and hit "Post Reply".
     
  7. I don't really see how subforuming the RP would be a viable solution to the matter. For instance, look at the view counts of the threads in Rise of the Keys against the majority of those in the Roleplay Out of Character section. I find that the subforums only work if there are a lot of interest, which is why that is becoming a factor in my decision.

    I have no issue with necroposting so long as it is relevant to reviving a thread with meaningful content. If that means you're interested in revitalizing an old concept, more power to you. Necroposting is not an issue I have ever had, because I find that it's a stupid concept to begin with when so many threads go stagnant.

    Even if I did, a bump is fine with me. People can be equally as lazy and not click around to find their way into the subforum; it's just a matter of how recent a thread is. With such a small community at the moment, it shouldn't reach the point where it hits the second page.

    As for reorganizing, I really don't see why further subforuming would help that out. I find it tedious enough with one set of subforums, and I know it may be a hassle for you to browse via mobile, Nate, I think that it isn't a big enough issue that I need to address. Perhaps adding collapsible subforums would help out...?
     
  8. Coming back to revisit this subject one final time.

    I'm here right now to let you guys know that, after a bunch of thought, I think it is time to get rid of the subforum section of ZEJ. It had been put in place originally to house Ultimate Tournament 2, since it was handling individual battles in a thread-by-thread basis. I think from there, we had grown a little carried away with getting everyone involved with the subforums, and giving them out like candy on Halloween. But at this point, it just makes no sense to continue operating some RPs in subforums when very plainly, everyone who is in present 'ownership' of a subforum can handle their own RPs in a single topic.

    For instance, in the RPs that we have now set in subforums (excluding ASB, which is an entirely special case and will be given its own section accordingly, most likely separate from the main RPing sections):

    ARKNET Reborn: ARKNET was given a subforum back in the days when ZEJ was still young, and perhaps a little foolish. Dark and friends are very clearly adamant on separating their RPs into different threads by scene, which is something I frankly think can be avoided now just by simple labels. We had been doing that with the statistical reboot of ARKNET (which I miss, but that is a different can of worms), so I'm not sure why a subforum is OVERLY needed in this case. Hopefully things can return to being handled in a thread for in-character interaction.

    Crossover Task Force: While I know Brawly has been adhering to our old system since he is not one to vouch for a drastic change in the times, I believe that separating things into separate threads for missions is a decent idea for this sort of thing, so as to play episodically, but this can also be handled with a table of contents in your out of character threads. The statplays do that, which leads me to have to suggest that this need be handled in a single thread, as well.

    Organization Aurora: Arc-based RPing is not, perhaps, something that ZEJ has been all that great at handling, as seen here. As the RP is still in its fledgling stages after almost a year (where does the time go?), I think it would make an easier transfer into a single thread RP... Organization Aurora, as I've already discussed with Shadow, can and will be made into a single thread.

    Rise of the Keys: Splitting the RP into different threads by area and having users switch between them seems like a plausible idea, but in all actuality I think it's a bit more confusing than it's worth. I think that Daen can handle RotK in a single RPing thread to keep everyone on track and organized, so that there is a little less confusion when it comes to moving from area to area. Instead of switching threads by area, you could simply label posts "<x Area, x World>." Maybe this sort of format could reboot the RP.

    Streets of Melsborough: As with Rise of the Keys, it makes a little less sense to have people thread-hopping on command, despite how much it seems like it makes things simpler. It's like going on a scavenger hunt just to follow the posts if you are not entirely up to date on things, and plus, it makes things trickier if you are posting from a mobile phone or something like that. I recommend that this be transformed into a single-thread RP.

    NOW, before you guys contest this and say that I'm being hasty and perhaps irrational, I will leave this open for discussion until this Saturday (July 14, 2012), and that will be when I start cracking down and removing the subforums, merging threads as I see necessary to try and remove forum clutter, and promote the RPs that are not given subforums.

    Getting rid of the subforums sort of brings about the unity that I am hoping for with ZEJ in these coming days, and I think that the subforuming of various RPs is bringing some segregation in terms of the userbase. Many cool things are left relatively unnoticed in the Freeform Out of Character section, so I encourage you also to check out such things as The Mystics by Rose Swan, or Euthora-Roul: Friitai Vol by Kudamon.
     
  9. The reason I don't like having one massive thread is simply due to the fact that one thread, at least to me, implies linear progression. ARKNET doesn't progress linearly from one scene to the next most of the time, so that's why I split it into a thread per scene. It just makes multiple scenes easier to keep up with without potentially having to go back several pages just to find a specific post to reply to.

    But with regard to getting rid of subforums -- you do have a point. As much as I'd like to keep mine, it does get annoying to click through several forums before I get to the thread I have to reply to. I'll merge my own threads and remove the forum right now, if you'd like~
     
  10. While I think that most roleplays would benefit from this structure, others wouldn't. Crossover Task Force is one that would fall into the latter group, in my opinion. The characters and achievements could probably be merged into the Sign-Ups/OOC thread with little to no problems, but because I plan to have multiple missions going on simultaneously at some points, in addition to a home base where some characters might stay behind, merging them all into one thread would make things insanely complicated.

    CTF isn't the only one. I think for other roleplays such as The Ultimate Tournament, Statistical Colosseum, (Assuming either of these roleplays come back at some point. :p) and, as you said, ASB, plus some roleplays that might appear in the future would be held back by this method rather than helped by it. In the end, this would be a huge benefit to some roleplays and a huge setback to others. However, I see your point that many roleplays are being ignored just for not having a sub-forum. Do what you think is best, but I think CTF and some other roleplays would have to either be seriously scaled down or stopped altogether if it were restricted to just one topic.
     
  11. As far as Crossover Task Force is concerned, personally, I'm reserved to the idea of keeping it all within two topics: an OoC topic, used for Out of Character discussions, Sign-Ups, the Achievements Board and the Character List, and an IC topic for the missions and the whole of the story and whatever the heck else. The OoC topic, in your case, Brawly, can be very easily organized into three separate posts made by the original poster right at the start of the topic. Make your general OoC post, with all of the info and the sign-up sheet(s) and all of that, and then make a post under it reserved to archive all of the sign-up sheets for easy access (spoiler tags are your friend). Under that post? A post archiving the characters and achievements list (once again, spoiler tags are your friend).

    Essentially....

    Thereafter- the missions topic. I can see what you mean with multiple missions going on at the same time, but... People can barely see CTF if it's buried beneath four other forums, not to mention the activitywhore that is Raised to Win. It's barely been able to scrape 500 overall views per topic, and it's been like 3 months. You'd probably get more outright exposure if it was right smack-dab in the Freeform Roleplays area instead of so hidden away. In fact, with MAYBE the exception of ASB (I haven't seen it active lately, but it had a big install base at a point), ALL of the Freeforms that are categorized by a subforum within a subforum are just... failing.

    On top of that, are you sure you can really carry on multiple missions at once? Just asking on the general scale, since it's a momentous task, and one that won't be accomplished from this point since it's not getting the exposure it needs/deserves/warrants. Maybe keep everything in one, or if you need it, two topics for In Character whozits and whatzits for now. Maybe one for the Missions, and one for everything else, but even that's pushing it. Look at an RP like The Mystics- it's operating perfectly fine, with all of its twists and turns, in a single RP. What you can do to straighten-up your IC into one topic is add in a ToC (Table of Contents) to your first post- like a book does with its chapters, except these would be the chapters of your RP.

    For instance:

    See? A list of chapters that can easily be edited to depict where the start of each one has henceforth occurred on whatever page. So, let's just say you keep things more streamlined and do a mission at a time or something, then you would name your mission, for the sake of this example it'll be Ay Chihuahua. You'd then proceed to write out your opening to Ay Chihuahua and yadayada. Once complete, post Ay Chihuahua's opening post into your IC, then immediately jump back to the first page and edit your ToC as such, for example:

    From this, we can tell the new chapter, or mission, if that pleases you, is named Ay Chihuahua, and we are told what page number it starts on and everything for easy access in case we missed a bit of reading.

    tl; dr? Read this: Regards to CTF in that I've only ever even seen it having one mission off of the ground the whole time. I don't see why he even needed his own subforum, at -all-; just fuse all of the missions into one topic and place a ToC at the top for easy page transition, fuse achievements and character list in a second post into the official OoC since it has everything else. Spoiler drop-downs are your friend.

    ~​

    As one might be able to tell lol, I'm in great agreement with Eebit's argument when it comes to subforums in most regards. Four clicks just to get to a freeform, for instance, is just bloody ridiculous, and the majority of what we subforum'd in the first place either doesn't have the activity to warrant it or was completely unqualified for it in the first place. IMO, you should only get a subforum for an RP that's tried and true, and it should be placed right smack-dab on the front page of The Roleplay Compendium. Of course, very few people would receive this honor to avoid bloating, which is what I'm trying to fight in the first place by kinda cracking down on this whole subforum debate. The Ultimate Tournament, when it comes to light in all of its rebooted glory, is one of those things that is a legacy and could receive temporary home on the front page, being the first major RP series ZEJ has ever had, if not what had made ZEJ even come to its own light in the first place. That, and it's proven that it's definitely needed more than a couple of posts to really carry out properly- something most RP's try to replicate just for the sake of replicating, when they really can be streamlined into a couple of posts. Well, news flash: if you can make it more organized, do it, since we're attempting a small jab at professionalism here and doing something just because you think its cool (making huge posts and blabalbalba) when it doesn't really warrant it isn't cool, but disruptive- and I'm saying this as a generalized statement not really pointed at any one person's direction, but rather the way the forum has been allowed to operate at times as a whole.
     
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