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A maze where you fight to the death

Discussion in 'Interest Checks' started by Keileon, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. Not REALLY a statgrind as is but it could easily become one, so...

    First, a chatlog.

    [15:53:50] Keileon What if we had a giant statplay grid, turned it into a maze with four entry points, got four players who can't see each other unless they have line of sight, had them PM their movements to the GM, and made them all fight to the death
    [15:54:56] Shadow This would be a really good idea if updating the grid was automated, because this sounds like a complete pain to manage
    [15:55:02] Shadow LoS with mazes is terrible as-is
    [15:55:43] Keileon Wecould potentially get someone to do it in Flash idk
    [15:56:14] Keileon Hell I wouldn't mind doing the grid manually, I have an idea for it
    [15:57:55] Keileon And to save a step of difficulty we can say that combat sets an alert in the maze (and thus show players who have line of sight) so they need to hurry up and either kill their opponent or get out of there


    So what I'm thinking is I'll see how wide a statplay grid can go on this forum (which might run some difficulties with whoever uses that sidebar thing for whatever reason) and turn it into a maze; the players will see where everyone starts, and can see when two people have a line of sight, but otherwise all they can see is the grid itself. They'd PM the GM (in this case, likely me) with where they want to move and the GM would keep movements hidden until someone has line of sight. When two players enter combat (ie gaining a line of sight) then the maze itself sets off an alert, telling other players where the battle is (and making the combatants hurry up and either kill or run).

    You would be able to use existing profiles for this, though I'd likely say no to summons/pets and environment-altering skills. We'd also probably bug Shadow for costs just for consistency.

    I don't think extensive in-character would be required, but a small amount might be a good way to have the players post when they aren't actually in combat.

    It'd probably be four players at a time.

    Further discussion in IRC:
    [16:11:05] Ziolang You know, by the end of next Semester I think I'll be able to program SP grids
    [16:11:23] Cerberus I can already take a guess at the meta for this: assassins are king
    [16:11:44] Keileon You'd want range, at least
    [16:12:02] Ziolang Just use invisibility skills
    [16:12:02] Cerberus Range and mobility will be irregularly valuable
    [16:12:10] Keileon Maybe even things like Immobilize
    [16:12:13] Keileon Yeah
    [16:12:26] Ziolang Invisibility+everything in Offense
    [16:12:32] Shadow All you need is super strong DPT
    [16:12:34] Keileon Holy fuck, imagine Cloak
    [16:13:27] Keileon Also no Airborne
    [16:14:38] Shadow If it's a maze Airborne won't do anything
    [16:15:06] Keileon I was thinking one of those open-air hedge mazes, but we could do underground
    [16:35:21] Keileon Potentially we can do eight players in teams but that might be stretching the userbase
    [16:45:14] Cerberus What would you think of giving each player two Units, Kuda? Allows multiple strategies and more plausible viability for roles besides DPT
    [16:45:36] Keileon Not sure.
    [16:48:42] Shadow I think mazelike settings are only approachable from a party setting than a PvP one
    [16:49:32] Shadow The meta is constrained so much that you only ever need movement speed, range, DPT and a handful of statuses
    [16:52:38] Keileon I dunno, I think it could work for PvP
    [16:58:41] Timn Keileon, you might look into a board game called Wiz War. They used the same idea you're talking about, a PvP maze game
    [17:01:40] Keileon I'm not into board games
    [17:03:26] Timn I know, but it plays the same way the game you're making does, it'd be like studying, or doing research.
    [17:05:19] Cerberus "Each wizard has a home base and two treasures to defend within that home base. While other wizards seek to steal your treasures, your wizard must venture into the maze to steal their treasures, or destroy them."
    [17:06:51] Cerberus Actually not all that bad an idea for introducing more strategy. It would at least add more decisions than just wandering blindly through a maze, looking for enemies to gank
    [17:10:09] Keileon Maybe
    [17:13:05] Keileon I was thinking of scattering actual environment and chests and such within the maze
    [17:13:51] Keileon Like, a central, open area with a few chests in it (you'd want to get over there asap and then make an escape if you want to avoid combat)
    [17:14:06] Keileon And then chests within the maze itself
    [17:15:05] Keileon Kind of like a Hunger Games feel; the Minecraft minigame based on it has a central spawn area loaded with chests and people like to camp it for refills
     
  2. I'll keep my eye on this.
     
  3. For me, the concept is kind of cool, but I have to feel that it would be a little unwieldy to put into practice (at least on a single map). Like Shadow sort of mentioned, Line of Sight is going to be a hell of a thing to manage, and I can't help but feel that there will be certain "archetypes" (i.e. heavy Damage Per Turn or Assassin characters, or otherwise people overloading on Free Commands and mobility) that will, by nature of the statgrind, crowd out the others. Everyone for themselves, everyone wanting to win? It makes sense to basically load your unit up with a kit that lends to them being able to burst down or otherwise outlast the other characters.

    Reading the "Further Discussion" spoiler, I do like the idea of the Hunger Games aspect of it. What Cerby mentioned -- not just having a single ultimate goal but providing a variety of ultimate goals -- particularly caught my eye, and it seems like something that would make this appealing.

    I think it'd be neat if you created an entire "arena" for the maze that spans several maps that are "stitched together" (for example, like how Shadow was going to construct the Donam Temple for World for Two) as opposed to just one big map. Because one big map seems somewhat inhibiting in terms of the "max size" you can fit in a window. Plus, different people using different resolutions, as well as me being one of those freaks who uses the side postbit. If only the GM has the "master map" of sorts, then all the players are wandering through various rooms with minimal direction trying to find each other... or otherwise set themselves up in the best possible position for when someone else finds them. Then you don't have to worry as much about line of sight and such, either.

    Going past the mechanical aspect of it (to a degree), I feel like this is almost something I would prefer to see as an actualized roleplay as opposed to a statgrind. Then it's not just all about having the best kit. Then there can be some semblance of story beyond the original premise -- why are the characters in the maze? What happens to those who "win"? It allows us to implement humanizing aspects of it; do we have bloodthirsty characters in the vein of Careers from the Hunger Games? Would alliances happen between characters? Are the monsters set in the maze by someone? For me, it just seems like a cool concept that is very easily set up and could extend itself without much difficulty beyond the original lens we're looking at it through.

    Along those lines, our pals over at Eternal Dream ran a roleplay called "Durn Project" that found all the players scattered within a mazelike setting to begin. It wasn't quite the same, as characters were almost immediately paired up into alliances that were almost prescribed when the RP picked up (and then... it quickly descended into the realm of unexpected twists and general mindfuckery -- definitely worth reading through if you have the time in my opinion). Obviously we wouldn't just be straight up stealing that idea, but it's what came to mind.

    So yeah. I feel like we could do something really neat with this. I'd be game, and I feel like I've put my cards on the table, although I'm happy to contribute more to the discussion and build this up some more.
     
  4. The main thing I want to do with the map is a labyrinthine puzzle where the players don't know where everyone else is, which I think is the hardest thing to do here. Line of sight isn't really the most difficult thing- I think the GM would just keep their own reference map for use in case players do enter combat- but with the multiple rooms thing you at least have an idea where other people are.
     
  5. I personally think that the multiple maps idea would be preferable from all sides. Maybe it's just me, but constantly being in the dark doesn't sound like a lot of fun from the player side of things. It's also bound to be a lot of reposting a big, blank map if you want all the information to be concealed from everyone. I'm sure there's a way of elegantly handling it, but without being in your head I can only assume what I would do, and that seems like it would be cumbersome for you to upkeep. And it doesn't seem to lend itself quite as well to how I would envision a statplay (EDIT: By this I mean that it would probably be a better online video game roguelike rather than a statplay, as the automation would be a lot easier and there's no fear of perspective).

    I'd be interested in hearing more about how you'd plan to handle it for the players and for general viewing, though, before it seems like I've totally written it off (for posterity, I haven't! I just have my own ideas on how I'd personally choose to run it it).

    Depending on how many grids you would make to have a multi-map labyrinth span, it wouldn't have to give players a lot of information as to where one another are, either. Although you're right in that it does lend itself a little more towards allowing metagaming, particularly if you choose to keep it as a statgrind.

    I don't think I'd be quite as keen on the idea if it did stay as a minimal-interaction statgrind, but I'd still play.
     
  6. I think seeing this become an actual roleplay would be really interesting. As a statgrind or game, it holds no interest to me because of how obvious and limited the meta would be; if you have even half a mind to win, you have to make your Unit a DPT, and the most optimized Units will basically be of the assassin archetype-- burst-oriented, and focused on either high mobility or high range. And at that point the winner would essentially be whichever Unit is a better assassin, it would seem. If it's a roleplay, though, of course, your purpose for participation is completely unrelated to 'winning', but rather becomes developing a unique character in this given situation. I'd be interested to see the dynamics that Units of other roles besides DPT could bring, in this case-- heck, I'd participate just to play a Support character who will inevitably have to realize that they can't go through this ordeal alone.

    As for the medium of the grid, whether it's an actual roleplay or not, I'd agree with Eebit that multiple smaller areas seems more appealing. It gives the GM an opportunity to create a handful or more of unique settings or circumstances (somewhat along the lines of the arena featured in Catching Fire, perhaps, or a cohesive setting with different quirks in each area) and also gives the players something much more tangible to interact with.
     

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